businesses haven't been paying taxes, most residents aren't paying their property taxes. but businesses are beginning to come back in. there's a trickle of businesses and some bigtime -- dennis: okay, but, guys, to get back more specifically to the topic at hand, scott martin in chicago, detroit faces $18 billion unfunded liabilities, and people had to wait hours for the police to show up. were the unions wrong to fight for pensioners? >> no, i don't think they were wrong, dennis. that's what they had to do. the joke around in chicago is chicago is basically could be detroit, you know, in a couple years. i mean, that's one thing that's going on ear is we're having the same -- here, this is just a precursor to a possible wave of bankruptcies that might happen across the country. i'll tell you one thing else to watch out for, watch out for your muni bond portfolios, the bonds that allow these cities and states issue, the funny part -- and jeff flock brought it up in his interview, a lot of those pension funds be buy those very bonds. so you're going to talk about downgrades